Mastering Customer Conversations: The Mom Test for Entrepreneurs and PMs

Whether you’re an entrepreneur trying to validate your start-up idea or a PM/CSM deciding what feature to build next, talking to customers is the best way to hedge against failure.

Yet, if you’re nice (or annoying) enough, people will avoid giving you a straight “No”. They’d rather be kept in the loop until the end of days.

The Mom Test (by Rob Fitzpatrick) is a great primer on running conclusive customer interviews. Here, I’ve condensed its key insights into a practical reference guide for your next customer interview.

Orient yourself for the interview

It boils down to this:

You aren’t allowed to tell customers what their problem is, and in return, they aren’t allowed to tell you what to build. They own the problem, you own the solution.

By the end of the interview, they might figure out what you’re talking about, and that’s okay! If they’re the right customer, you’ll find them asking you about the next steps.

Run the Mom Test

It’s you vs your customer interviews

The idea is to gather concrete facts about the customers’ lives and world views. To break it down:

1. Talk about the customer’s life instead of your idea
2. Ask about specifics in the past instead of generics or opinions about the future
3. Talk less and listen more

Now, let’s see how to apply this in the next section. When done well, even your mom (who would do anything to protect your feelings) shouldn’t be able to lie to you.

Examples of good & bad questions

What questions should you ask your customers? What should you avoid? Use the three tenets from the previous section to evaluate the effectiveness of a question.

• Do you think it’s a good idea?

Bad question; asks for opinion; appeals for validation; fails 1, 2

• Would you buy a product which did X?

Bad question; hypothetical; fails 1, 2

• Would you pay X for a product which did Y?

Bad question; hypothetical; fails 1, 2

Note: Instead, ask what the problem is costing & what resources they have deployed to tackle it. If none, is it even big enough a problem?

• What would your dream product do?

Passable question; passes 2 & 3

Note: Dig deeper into the whys behind the desires.

• What are the implications of that?

Good question; Inquires into the specifics; passes 1, 2, & 3

Note: If the implications can be lived with, it isn’t worth spending on.

• Talk me through the last time that happened.

Great question; passes 1, 2, & 3

Note: If they offer to walk you through their day/workflow instead, take it up.

• What else have you tried?

Great question; indicates problem’s criticality; can anchor price; passes 2 & 3

Note: If they haven’t tried other solutions yet, it’s not a big enough problem.

• How are you dealing with it now?

Great question; can open up more problem avenues; passes 1 & 2

• Where does the money come from?

Great question; differentiates users from customers; B2B staple

• Who else should I talk to?

Great question; opens up opportunities; response indicates customer’s commitment

• Is there anything else I should have asked?

Okay question; tricky unless talking to an expert

Tackle bad responses

A question can be left unanswered, yet, no question remains unresponded. It could be in a direct answer, a question shot back at you, an attempt to evade the topic, or even silence. It’s your job to interpret the response. To you, everything is data.

Be cautious of these three types of misleading data that can seem like strong signals:

1. Compliments — “Wow! That is amazing. Keep in in the loop!” Deflect them. Dig further to learn if their actual needs are being met. If not too early, ask for commitment (next meeting, warm intros, investment).
2. Fluff — “I would definitely buy that!” “I am an inbox-zero maniac.” Get into the specifics. “When was the last time it (inbox-zero) fell apart for you?” “Why did that happen?” “How did you handle it?”
3. Ideas — “I think an integration with MS Excel will elevate your product to a whole new level.” Dig deeper into the ideas to uncover the real problem. “Really? How are you managing it currently without the integration?” “Interns? Okay! Are they able to manage the ad-hoc reporting?” “So, there IS a process that’s working well?”

Follow these best practices

Before any customer interview, run through this list to orient yourself.

Do not pitch

If you come off as pitchy, the customer will sense your need for approval and give it to you. Do not corrupt data with pathos. Examples:

“So here’s that top-secret project I quit my job for… what do you think?”

“I can take it — be honest and tell me what you really think!”

Ask important questions

Imagine that the company has failed and ask why that happened. Then imagine it as a huge success and ask what had to be true to get there. Find ways to learn about those critical pieces. If you get an unexpected answer to a question and it doesn’t affect what you’re doing, it wasn’t a terribly important question.

Every time you talk to someone, you should ask a question that has the potential to completely destroy your currently imagined business.

Look before you zoom

Staying at the surface long enough can help you identify whether you’re talking to a non-customer or if their problem is different from what you assumed.

Eg. If you ask me about my biggest challenge in being consistent with the gym, I’d point out the long commute. So, you try to pitch me a cheap, at-home workout program that gives the same results as a gym.

That’s fair! However, I never got the chance to tell you that I prefer to run for my fitness. Strength training doesn’t fit my life as well as I’d like it to. Or even worse, fitness just isn’t a priority in my life right now. I wouldn’t put my money there.

Advance via commitment

There’s no such thing as a meeting that just “went well”. Every meeting either succeeds or fails. You’ve lost the meeting when you leave with a compliment or a stalling tactic.

Once you have the beginning of a product, ask the customer for commitment. If they resist, you have their answer — albeit an unfavourable one. On the other hand, if they seem eager to move forward, discuss the different forms of commitment. The three major currencies are time, reputation risk, and cash.

• Time commitment: Clear next meeting with known goals.
• Reputation risk commitment: Intro to peers, team, decision maker (boss, spouse, lawyer) or giving a public testimonial or case study.
• Financial commitment: Letter of intent, pre-order Deposit.

Strong commitments combine multiple currencies, such as someone agreeing to run a paid trial with their whole team, thus risking their time, money, and reputation.

Save bad meetings via commitment

Finally, if you feel the meeting has gone off track, you can try to salvage it by seeking a commitment. If nothing else, you’ll get a clear picture on where the customer stands at the moment.

The book covers other topics such as reaching out to potential customers, notetaking, and choosing customers. If you’re interested in reading more, check out https://www.momtestbook.com.